tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post8808181737104986387..comments2023-08-10T05:24:20.775-04:00Comments on Razing the Bar: Back from the CircusAndy Whitmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04010130934552315074noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-87907844348366848602008-11-18T00:47:00.000-05:002008-11-18T00:47:00.000-05:00Thanks for the great post, I agree with most of wh...Thanks for the great post, I agree with most of what you've said.<BR/><BR/>As a veteran of 23 Cornerstones, I can give you a slightly different perspective:<BR/><BR/>1) You get out of Cornerstone what you put into it... the closer you are to the stage, the more you converse with the people, the less you pay attention to the hype-- that's when you get the real value.<BR/><BR/>2) The styles of music have changed over the years, no doubt, but there are always new bands and styles that arrive. Sure, the 77's are my favorite band, but Over The Rhine an Savior Machine and Scaterd Few are totally different styles that all were introduced to me at Cornerstone. No, I don't like the all-night dance-hall... so I don't go. BUT NOTHING anywhere else compares to the quality you do get if you pay attention to the artists. In general, you can't go wrong at the Gallery tent (and the coffee refills are a quarter!)<BR/><BR/>3) The abomination of the video boards at main stage is the work of Satan (in monetary form, like usual). They wanted to be able to show the bands on video and sold our collective souls to the marketing harlot. I rue that decision and have written JPUSA about it several times. You should too.<BR/><BR/>4) Please, PLEASE come back and let's hang out in the food court and talk sometime. I just discovered your blog today and in the process have found a kindred spirit.<BR/><BR/>I remember in 1986 watching the urban punks from downtown Chicago jumping the festival grounds fences to see that "ripping band" One Bad Pig. Setting themselves on fire and slam-dancing each other out was a huge eye opener for the Sandi Patty faithful. Thing is, several of those heathen punks meet up with me every Cornerstone and talk about how much God has been working in our lives.<BR/><BR/>Jesus can speak through all kinds of music...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-76455692758221790892008-07-18T18:36:00.000-04:002008-07-18T18:36:00.000-04:00Tee hee. You said "Martin Luther King."I guess he...Tee hee. You said "Martin Luther <I>King</I>."<BR/><BR/>I guess he had some hot petitions too. I try to tell my non-church history friends about ML posting his theses on the door of the church. For some reason they always think I said "feces." So they come away with an entirely inaccurate picture of the father of protestantism.Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12720231599785798340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-91099459278725425542008-07-18T10:41:00.000-04:002008-07-18T10:41:00.000-04:00Let's agree that they should all be listening to K...Let's agree that they should all be listening to Keith Green and Mark Heard, shall we?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-89703315520455492582008-07-17T08:53:00.000-04:002008-07-17T08:53:00.000-04:00Amy, thanks for your comments, and congratulations...Amy, thanks for your comments, and congratulations to you and Dan on the birth of Alexandra Joy.<BR/><BR/>Hayseed/Christopher, I hear what you're saying, and I certainly understand that peoples' tastes vary, that God uses all kinds of music to reach all kinds of people, etc. All true.<BR/><BR/>My concerns are not so much musical ones as they are marketing ones. What does it say about an industry that sponsors a tour where preachers promote sexual abstinence, and that features a cutesy Boy Band that is designed to get the young girls squealing? What's wrong with this pretty picture? No wonder the kids are confused. The whole industry is confused.<BR/><BR/>And I have a mixed reaction to the "it's the only form of entertainment that some of these folks will get" argument. It's probably true, and sure, a little wholesome, vapid entertainment is probably marginally better than a little unwholesome, vapid entertainment. But there's a big part of me that still wants to insist that not all entertainment (or even all "art" if I want to be somewhat pretentious about snarling guys with guitars) is created equal. People can survive, for a while, by eating nothing but Big Macs and Biggie Fries, too. But maybe they shouldn't. Maybe there's something better. And maybe there's something better in the music world, too. I want to keep pushing for that.Andy Whitmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04010130934552315074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-71348066562187691662008-07-16T22:26:00.000-04:002008-07-16T22:26:00.000-04:00I've been to Cornerstone a few times with Chagall ...I've been to Cornerstone a few times with Chagall Guevara and Steve Taylor. I'd say you pretty much described the scene as I remember it.<BR/><BR/>However, I have to disagree with the vehemence of your "kneejerk reaction to the notion of marketing and hyping worship music." I think comments like Tyler's "idiots who think that Hawk Nelson is a good band" are elitist and self-serving.<BR/><BR/>Obviously, calling someone an "idiot" for their taste in music is unnecessary and unwise. In addition, I think it's probably not a good idea to be denigrating someone who is dedicating themselves to spreading the gospel even if it's in a form you find less than palatable. <BR/><BR/>You and I have had enough conversations that you know I really don't like MOST Christian music. However, I do know that the body of Christ has some pretty divergent members and there's no accounting for taste. My young nieces wouldn't listen to 30 seconds of Chagall Guevara or The 77s or The Choir, or Rez... but they'd probably love Hawk Nelson. And I say that's a helluva lot better than them listening to Blackeyed Peas or whatever else kids their age are into. The values inherent in the music are important. <BR/><BR/>I'd say there are a lot more "Bennetts" in the world who would say "I like music the way most people enjoy nature." It's background noise and a pretty soundtrack to their life. And if someone can reach out and connect to God listening to yet another U2 variant while singing about deers panting or windy wings or apples and eyes... well, good for them! I don't think we need to convince them the music they're enjoying is crap! <BR/><BR/>And if the MC seems a little too glib for our tastes, well, it's likely that is the only form of "entertainment" that some of those folks will get. I mean, they're not likely hanging out in clubs listening to "real" bands. Besides, they are not likely to be "sophisticated" enough to hear folks like The Hold Steady and separate out that he's "wrong on some big issues" but otherwise a damn good songwriter. And it's not wrong for them to want to hear words that reinforce their belief systems and make them feel closer to God. <BR/><BR/>All of that to say it's OK for you and me to dislike their music and even be suspect of their motives. But it's between them and God and if He chooses to use that fascile glib MC to speak to some kid, it wouldn't be the first time He's spoken through an ass!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-63424785939682068012008-07-14T13:38:00.000-04:002008-07-14T13:38:00.000-04:00i went to cornerstone once, in college. it sounds...i went to cornerstone once, in college. it sounds like it's pretty much the same. :-) i'm also thrilled that you were introduced to josh garrels and his music. his wife is one of my dear friends from college, and it's been great to see the word of mouth spread...amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07150486668935089763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-66576901960668313782008-07-10T10:40:00.000-04:002008-07-10T10:40:00.000-04:00z and i were really rooting for josh garrels durin...z and i were really rooting for josh garrels during the calvin college ffm (although son lux is the real deal). we actually built a wedding anniversary around a trip to see him play in muncie. he's astounding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-32745738335121828322008-07-09T12:38:00.000-04:002008-07-09T12:38:00.000-04:00Glad to see the shout-out to Josh Garrels. Our liv...Glad to see the shout-out to Josh Garrels. Our lives and friends are intertwined. (Just 3 weeks ago he officiated my best friend's wedding, and I was the best man.) He's the real deal in every sense. I love that he has no interest in going the CCM route.<BR/><BR/>That said, I've been working in the center of the Christian music world for the last few years (until getting laid off in April), and I think that a lot of your assessments are correct. As someone who wants to support Christians who make good art, I went in hoping to help change the industry. Instead, it changed me.<BR/><BR/>The sad thing is that the Christian music industry isn’t interested in changing or being excellent. The industry is actually full of great (if distracted) people, but it’s a broken system. They can’t support good music, because good music usually doesn’t sell. And their overhead doesn’t allow them to create a product that doesn’t sell. So their stuck making crap that panders to idiots who think that Hawk Nelson is a good band. Most people in the industry are so concerned with not being laid off—“perhaps I should have been more”, I say from the unemployment line—and conditioned to accept mediocrity as brilliance that they don’t even care anymore.<BR/><BR/>It’s a sad state of affairs.<BR/><BR/>While I don’t want more people to be out of work, I honestly hope that the major labels continue to decline. This whole thing needs to be dismantled and built over from scratch.Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01309313510939066692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-41141883582749960362008-07-08T19:26:00.000-04:002008-07-08T19:26:00.000-04:00I've been a fan of your column in Paste for a whil...I've been a fan of your column in Paste for a while, but only recently discovered your blog here. While I wasn't at Cornerstone, I enjoyed reading the roundup, and in particular the couple-paragraph rant on the "worship" music, which struck a nerve. I agree wholeheartedly. It is neither hot nor cold, so, you know...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-68527693463960683132008-07-08T14:17:00.000-04:002008-07-08T14:17:00.000-04:00really great roundup. i was at your workshops (the...really great roundup. i was at your workshops (the 4 that i could make, having two kids with us) and they were each fantastic. i've been listening to son lux all day. thanks again for sharing what you did (then and now). i'll be sure to continue to check back!bukiewiczhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18194935776436301411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-62193598727527046852008-07-08T10:41:00.000-04:002008-07-08T10:41:00.000-04:00Andy,After enjoying your column in Paste it was go...Andy,<BR/><BR/>After enjoying your column in Paste it was good to meet you in person. Kate is a delight as well.<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed your seminar and plan to seek out some of the music you played so I can give it a fair listen without the distractions.<BR/><BR/>It was funny how you mentioned the line from Love Story as I have used that as an example of a false statement about love for years.<BR/><BR/>I am in agreement with you in not understanding people who don't make music an important part of their life. I am blessed to have a wife that shares/indulges my passion for music.<BR/><BR/>I hope our paths cross again.<BR/><BR/>If you get a chance the Tall Stacks festival in Cincy is usually a great event that has featured an incredible lineup of performers in past years. It doesn't happen but every 3 or 4 years and is due around '09 or '10<BR/><BR/>Thanks Again,<BR/><BR/>Tim (& Deb)hallga77https://www.blogger.com/profile/05437527150816718369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-81065851206595883752008-07-08T09:14:00.000-04:002008-07-08T09:14:00.000-04:00Wow! Your report-reflections stirred up a lot of m...Wow! Your report-reflections stirred up a lot of my own memories. The cultural turf remark was spot on funny. Don't know about you, but what helped my Christian angst more than anything else was getting married!<BR/><BR/>I attended C-Stone in the late 80's. The best year was the first time Charlie Peacock came and also some guy named Tonio K. (BTW, what's he going these days?)I love Mike Roe, admire the Wassermans, and hate Hawk Nelson too.Living the Biblioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267015591878790193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-83679746306246491172008-07-07T17:06:00.000-04:002008-07-07T17:06:00.000-04:00James, I was glad to meet you and Winston as well....James, I was glad to meet you and Winston as well. Thanks for the tip on New World Son. They were wonderful.<BR/><BR/>I hope to see you again.Andy Whitmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04010130934552315074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-56596489916974797342008-07-07T16:59:00.000-04:002008-07-07T16:59:00.000-04:00Hi, Bennett. Thanks for your comments. The "Blind...Hi, Bennett. Thanks for your comments. The "Blind Willie Johnson (by way of Led Zeppelin)" comments refer to a song written and originally recorded by bluesman Blind Willie Johnson in 1927, and later covered by Led Zeppelin. The arrangement I heard was based on Led Zeppelin (complete with Robert Plant banshee wail approximations) rather than Blind Willie Johnson.<BR/><BR/>As far as your main point, I certainly have a kneejerk reaction to the notion of marketing and hyping worship music. There's something fundamentally misguided about the whole approach, in my opinion, although clearly there's nothing wrong with singing and/or performing worship music. <BR/><BR/>But the Main Stage at Cornerstone left a bad taste in my mouth. The phrase "here's a hot new worship band" makes me want to stick sharp objects in my eye. It's bad enough to treat worship music as a commodity. But it's worse when it's marketed with all the trappings of facile, glib MCs who extol the wonders of this music as if they were selling laundry detergent.<BR/><BR/>That's my biggest concern. And I saw a lot of that on Friday night. As a secondary concern, much of this music isn't very good. It's bland and predictable lyrically and musically, full of sentiments that are best left to Hallmark Cards and Precious Moments figurines. I also like U2, but I don't need or want to hear another band, in any context, Christian or otherwise, who simply mimic what they've heard on countless older U2 albums. It's all been done. A thousand times. Move on.<BR/><BR/>But my primary concern is the marketing of what ought to be a holy encounter with the creator of the universe. For the sake of comparison, imagine a Top 10 list of the Best People of Prayer, and imagine a breathless pastor extolling, "You loved Francis of Assisi! Wait 'til you hear Martin Luther King and his hot petitions!"<BR/><BR/>I cordially can't stand the approach. I wish, and perhaps should fervently pray, that it would go away.Andy Whitmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04010130934552315074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-45597421773171202422008-07-07T15:47:00.000-04:002008-07-07T15:47:00.000-04:00I'm not a hard-core music fan. For example when y...I'm not a hard-core music fan. For example when you said, "The 77’s, in particular, were pretty wonderful, and laid down a marvelous cover of Blind Willie Johnson’s (by way of Led Zeppelin) 'Nobody’s Fault But Mine.'" it was Jabberwocky to me. I just don't have the vocabulary or the background to understand what that means.<BR/><BR/>I like music the way most people enjoy nature. Most people look at pictures of nature, take walks around the park, or even take weekend camping trips once in a while. That's me with music. I like to listen to whatever comes my way, and I even like to play the guitar and sing to the walls. So i guess I really like the idea and the discipline of music, but I don't care much about music as art. I don't care enough to learn the names of bands and styles and seek out obscure albums.<BR/><BR/>I do, however, really appreciate reading your blog for some reason. I usually skim the posts that are strictly about music. Those that delve in to culture are more interesting to me. This one is particularly interesting because it gives me a glimpse of where music and Christian culture are intersecting. CStone seems like a physical manifestation of Christian culture.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I have heard music insiders (and people who think they are insiders) talk about the backwardness of CCM. As an outsider I wonder if you or anyone could be specific and name names. I (as you describe) think it is pitiful that performers are hawking their "worship" albums and trying, in effect, to make the Holy Spirit a commodity. At the same time I like all of David Crowder's music. I also like some of Chris Tomlin's and others like them. But am I just a rube befuddled by the Nashville machine? Because of my lack of music appreciation skills am I naively buying in to snake oil pushers and being part of a culture that I would rather denounce?<BR/><BR/>What I need are some examples. When you urge, "don’t stand up there in front of 15,000 people and peddle your latest (and best yet!) CD and sing your trite “apple of my eye/wind beneath my wings” rhymes to U2 accompaniment for the 20,000th time" what sort of folks are you talking about? Because I do hear U2 influences in some of the music I listen to. Usually, I like it. And "apple of my eye" and "wind beneath my wings" are both, if I'm not mistaken, metaphors original to the Bible. So I get what you are saying, but I am genuinely scared that I am a part of it and just don't know it. I would guess that none of the bands you hated would want to be the way they are if they were aware of the way they are.Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12720231599785798340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9991864.post-8344298413336722062008-07-07T12:17:00.000-04:002008-07-07T12:17:00.000-04:00Hey Andy, Glad to have met you at Cornerstone, to ...Hey Andy, <BR/><BR/>Glad to have met you at Cornerstone, to have heard you speak about music, and to have had the chance to talk briefly with you and Kate. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the CStone review sans kid gloves. I think you captured the essence of a lot of what is great/unsightly about both the fest and the Christian music industry--that is to say, broken people doing the best they know how. (And making most of their mistakes when money comes into play.) It goes much deeper, of course, but summaries of summaries can only do so much.<BR/><BR/>Glad you enjoyed NWS as you did. Those guys are doing the right thing the right way, I think, and making high art for the King. Would that everyone else could say the same.<BR/><BR/>Looking forward to keeping up with your blog.<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>James Harrington (Winston's friend)Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18166696020425522975noreply@blogger.com